Are you a man wanting to tap more into your power and your purpose?
Wondering what does it mean to be “masculine” in this day and age?
Curious how to be a “real man” AND in touch with your heart at the same time?
Or perhaps you are a woman desiring her man to take the lead more?
This week we have an amazing guest with us! “My Gentle Warrior Friend” (pseudonym used for privacy) is an entrepreneur, a mental health professional, and an arts activist. We discuss masculinity, what that means, how to practice it, and the pitfalls a modern day man faces to show up in life, love and sex like a conscious man.
You will learn:
- Tips for leaning into your masculine power
- What are masculine and feminine energies?
- Challenges of the modern day man to be “manly”
- Masculinity as an energy practice
Listen in and join us in all things masculine!
Deep love and honoring,
Episode Transcript
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
masculine, masculinity, man, masculine energy, life, feminine energy, feel, woman, male, friend, ambivalence, polarity, energy, tease, talk, dominant, practice, stormy, podcast, fabulous
SPEAKERS: Dr. Stormy, Gentle Warrior
Dr. Stormy
Hi, welcome to the Love Deep Lab podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Stormy. Today’s episode is all about diving deeper into masculinity. And I have my gentle warrior friend today here to join me. Welcome.
Gentle Warrior
Well, hello there. That’s a great introduction. A gentle warrior. Do I have my podcast voice on today? Or do I need to adjust tone or anything?
Dr. Stormy
It’s perfect, fabulous.! Love it. Well, welcome. Thank you for joining me. I have so much respect for you and your own journey as you’ve shared with me about masculinity, and embodying it, practicing it. So for our listeners today, I just want to help them understand some of the struggles, you know, from a male perspective with masculinity, and also some ways to practice and cultivate and to deepen that connection with it, whether we call it central masculine or divine masculine or light masculine, but not the misplaced shadow masculine. So I’m just curious–what are your thoughts about shadow masculine versus light masculine?
Gentle Warrior
Well, it’s funny, because there’s so much judgment around what it means to be a man. And I think society’s moving more and more away from the idea of what toxic masculinity might be. But it’s so caught up in our identity. I mean, from the time we’re young boys we are tested about our strength, our resilience. We’re tested on the battlefield of sports–tested, and tested, and tested. And a lot of that testing is great. Um, for me, it was a little different. I didn’t grow up wanting to play football or needing to play football. And, so I was very confused about my masculinity–not in the way of confused about how I identified sexually–but confused about what it meant to be a man and really step into being more masculine. I would say I was confused for the first half of my life, up until in my adulthood.
Dr. Stormy
Wow. Yeah. And I agree, I feel so tender about the mixed messaging that young men all through the ages–mixed cultural messaging, mixed religious messaging, and mixed messaging within relationships and dynamics. But it’s got be hard to navigate and sort it all out, and figure out what masculinity is. And how do I practice it–because there’s a lot of mixed messages.
Gentle Warrior
Well, it ultimately comes down to pop culture. And what we see, and what we get rewarded for in society is usually what we do. Women get rewarded for the way they look, the way they dress. Men get rewarded for showing strength, showing success, and these things become such tropes. And they undermine the complexity that each of us have in such a sad way. Because for some, yeah, being an A personality, goes to the gym every morning conquers the real guy–that’s satisfying to that person. And then for others, they’re maybe playing a role in life that they didn’t really choose or want to play. And, I think I actually have the opposite situation. I got so confused about what it meant to be masculine at a young age, in part because, my father played football. He was an allstate football player. But he played back in the day when they didn’t have face masks. So he had problems in his nose and everything. So they basically said, you’re not gonna play football. But he’s also just a very kind and gentle, strong man. So I learned that kindness and gentleness were great, but I also started to realize he never really had any killer instincts. And so I grew up thinking that a killer Instinct and masculinity were not positive. So I began to shun that part of my own masculinity, or maybe not shun, but I just didn’t understand it. I was a little bit afraid of it. I did not embrace it. And so I became a gentle warrior man. But that’s not the only man I am. There’s a calling, deep in the hunger of men’s souls, that craves something a little different sometimes.
Dr. Stormy
Yeah, I totally agree. When I’m working with my male clients and also with the fabulous male friends in my life, there is a desire, like a primal strength and a primal desire, and it’s not in an unconscious, messed up way. It’s like in a conscious way to move into that and channel that, like that primal strength. And I love that. For you, it can go either way, right? And that can be overblown, overtaught, or it can be completely not taught and bypassed. And so as a man, how do you recommend young men that are listening navigate this–the conundrum of truly figuring out what is masculine for you–how do you navigate that?
Gentle Warrior
Well, that’s a really good point. Because I would say that for a greater portion of my life, when push came to shove, I got out of the way. Like, I’ve always been very outgoing, entrepreneurial, but anti-confrontational. And I think that’s one of the things, for those that lean too far to one side to lose out on in life, is there are times to fight. There are times to pull out your sword and there are times to pull out your whatever the opposite of a sword is. And I wished that I had had more courage in some of those moments. And then I began to have shame around who I was–I’m like, What, am I a coward? Or am I a wimp? And then to make myself feel better, I started just turning my nose down. And anyone that went to the gym excessively or excelled in high contact sports, or anyone that embodied that ultra masculine thing, I began to look at those things in a negative way, while at the same time wishing I was more like that. So yeah, I think for someone that’s young and masculine, it’s hard to understand that that’s happening until some light bulb clicks. So the lightbulb clicked for me, quite frankly, when I had a friend who’s a mutual friend of ours, who recommended a book called The Way of the Superior Man. And it was the first time that I was able to think about my masculinity as a power and a thing that I could wield. Not my identity and who I am, but I was able to bring it outside of myself and then take a harder look at it, if that makes sense.
Dr. Stormy
Yeah. And I remember you sharing with me that you were reading that it felt really like a deconstruction, like life-altering, because it was this new concept–a new way of working with masculinity for you.
Gentle Warrior
Yeah. Because there’s these different facets of masculinity And in some of the work that I’ve seen you do, and some of the things I’ve heard you talk about in your lectures, is this idea of the various different phases of the magician–I forget them all right now.
Dr. Stormy
The king, the warrior, the magician, yep.
Gentle Warrior
Yeah. So that isn’t just masculinity, but that there are these different phases. And it sounds so obvious when you start talking about it. Of course, we’re not all one- dimensional. However, when you think about your manhood, I mean, our identity sexually is such a challenging thing to feel comfortable about. I think no matter who you are, how beautiful you are, and how much of how great of a lover you are, on some level, it’s like, this is who I am. Right? And that’s really challenging.
Dr. Stormy
Yeah, that really intense identification with masculinity as identity. I love that. I love also thinking about the facets of masculinity, like learning which ones are you a rock star in? This is the beginning of Shadow Work, right? Like you mentioned, the bypass, right, like parts of ourselves that are in the shadows that we disown, or don’t like, or have been told not to like or not okay. They kind of run amok and those can be the parts that cause chaos or conflict in our life subtly and not subtly. But what I hear you saying, is that when you think about masculinity having so many facets or archetypes, so many different elements, then you can kind of start to, as you said, look to be an observer, and take it outside of yourself in this intense identification with it–and say, What parts do I rock, what parts do I want to work on? And how can I work on them? And we can’t work on things unless we are aware of them, which is kind of the root of Shadow Work. Taking things out of the dark and bringing them into the light. I love Shadow Work. As you know, I do my own and with clients and everything. But I also love what you were saying with Deida’s work, like looking at it as a practice. You don’t just arrive to essential masculinity or divine masculinity. It’s a practice right? Like everything I’ve been talking about in the Love Deep love podcast. Looking at these things as practices–looking at fabulous sex as a practice; mindfulness as a practice; and femininity and masculinity. And you know, just also for my listeners, when we’re talking about the masculine energy and the feminine energy, you as a man run both–have both masculine and feminine. And me, as a woman, I have both masculine and feminine. Every person on the planet has both energies. And then it’s, which ones do I want to run? Which ones do I need to lean into? Can I call on both, and can I be conscious in moving between the two. Because I would say I get to experience you as a dear friend, that you have a gorgeous masculinity, but you also are very open and accessible to your feminine energy–would you agree?
Gentle Warrior
I would. And I think that I was stuck in that feminine energy, and I didn’t know when and how to use my masculine energy with confidence. Yeah. And that spectrum that you’re talking about was the thing that was mind blowing to me–this idea that there’s feminine energy and masculine energy, and that I can use those two different tools at different times. And it’s at my disposal. And I feel more at harmony when I lean more masculine in my energy. And so I have more harmony now with that masculine energy, because I know when to use it. I’ll just give you a couple of examples. I’ve never been shy. But I’ve never felt like the kind of guy that can pick up chicks at a bar, because I never knew what to say. And the picking up of somebody in a bar is such a dance of the primal spirit. And unless you’re talking to someone who has a masculine energy, assuming I’m talking to a woman, in my case, as a masculine energy, she’s bringing her feminine energy A game, which comes so naturally to her. And then if I show up lukewarm–without presence, without confidence–then it just didn’t ever work. And I knew that you need to be confident and make them laugh and buy a drink, or whatever. But I didn’t understand that I have a power within me that will elicit a response from her if I just use it, right? Show up, stand tall, keep your shoulders back–I mean, little things like that are masculine things. And then once she feels that attraction, then the dance kind of begins. Then maybe I roll into being a little bit more on the feminine, silly side. And while she maybe steps a little bit more into her professional and ambitious side, that’s when it just becomes so beautiful. So that’s one example.
Dr. Stormy
I love that so much.
Gentle Warrior
I do have another example. And this one was one that’s kind of personal. It’s why, in part, why we’re doing this anonymously. But I never understood what it meant to be masculine-dominant in the bedroom and with my sexuality. And unfortunately, men are often taught that male sexuality and particularly, the desire we have to have dominant sexual energy is what we see in porn. Then we’ll hear about things or we’ll see things like, say, a woman being spanked, right, or some women like to feel like they’re kind of pinned down or tied down, or whatever. And that all felt so foreign to me. It felt wrong, frankly. And so I never even got close to that energy. And what I learned, again, a little bit from the book is, if I don’t go further into my masculine energy, my woman does not have the opportunity to fully embrace and go further into her feminine energy. And so instead, we both arrive at the middle and don’t have as good sex as we could have.
Dr. Stormy
Totally!
Gentle Warrior
So I realized, wow, this is an energy that my woman wants to feel from me. And it doesn’t mean that I hurt her or beat her or do anything, but just have a little more confidence in being dominant. It’s so interesting how that’s evolved in my sexual relationship. Because there are moments when I can be dominant, and I don’t feel like I’m being some stupid asshole jerk that’s doing something this woman doesn’t want. Instead, she gets to do something that’s very feminine, which is fully released into my loving embrace.
Dr. Stormy
Yeah, and your loving leadership. Right? That’s amazing. I love those examples. You know, you mentioned with the first example–picking a woman up–about that ambivalence right, if you go in with ambivalence. I guess what I’m thinking about is ambivalence is not for me as a woman. And running my feminine energy is not a great representation of the solid masculine, right?–that ambivalence. I want my man to be solid, to be steadfast. Even if it’s a no. Even if it is said that this is a no or a yes, let’s say sexually, I want him to be sound in it. I don’t want that ambivalence. I think of the feminine as more flowing and movement and organic, like an organic or inorganic nature to it. And then the masculine is that steadfast, that mountain energy. So I love that. As you said, she will pick up on your ambivalence. And that’s not that sexy. I want my man to be solid.
Gentle Warrior
And don’t say, Oh, how sweet, we can just cuddle tonight.
Dr. Stormy
Yeah, I think also I was just laughing because I’m thinking how additionally confusing if you happen to be partnered with a strong fiery woman, because you know, then it’s like, Wait, does she need me? Does she not need me? And I’m gonna self-identify as a strong, fiery woman. And I can see that I want my man to lead. And I mean conscious leadership, not unconscious or messed up leadership–but conscious leadership. Because then I get to, as you just mentioned, soften into my love and to my openness. And I love the idea of this. And what Deida’s work was really about is the dance right? The dance between the masculine and feminine energy is the dance of polarity. But you know, I think it’s such an interesting struggle that I have. And the reason we’ve had this podcast is because you and I were chatting that we really believe, I really believe that good men, like the men I have in my life–and most men are good men in their essence, all men are good men of their essence, actually–but that desire to be fabulous lovers and amazing leaders and fabulous fathers and productive workers and all of these things, and yet it’s such muddy water. You know, what do you think about that desire? Like how do you know that? Do you agree that men really want to be sound in their masculine, in a healthy masculine?
Gentle Warrior
Absolutely, and we want it to be natural. And we don’t want to have to read a book or talk to a therapist about it. We don’t want to sit around a campfire and talk to our friends about it. We don’t. I mean, we want it to just be who we are. Because, well, I can speak for myself. But I think it’s probably not too far of a stretch to say that it’s uncomfortable and embarrassing for a man to be told that you can be a better man–better in bed–if you just do these things. While in a top-secret manner. we’re all looking at websites in incognito mode about how to really make her feel pleasure. So in the social stigmas, particularly in America around sex and sexuality, talking about sex or sexuality doesn’t help. It’s because for me, with my first marriage, I was just expected to figure it out in the bedroom after not having any real teaching or any real experience even with my then wife. I was just supposed to figure it out. And it’s like, okay, I figured it out from porn, I figured it out from maybe talking to friends. And whenever those discussions happen, everyone’s trying to show their most magical thing ever. You’re just Slayer, or whatever. The tenderness of being able to have even male role models that you can talk to about these things–or to have accessibility to someone like you who coaches and helps people to understand what they might be blocking–how they can embrace it, how to play games, and make it be something more fun–instead of something that’s so heavy laden with pressure that you just stop wanting to have sex altogether. There’s just so much baggage to it. And of course, every man wants to be a good man. I want to be a good man, I want to be a strong man, I want to be there for my partner, and I want to understand my masculinity. I want to fight and kill when it calls for it. I want to be gentle and loving and supportive and be there when it calls for that.
Dr. Stormy
Beautiful. And so here is what I’m leading into: what are some tips or practices you have for the men and the male body people listening, you know, to practice or to start to explore? You mentioned the shame and all of that. But what would be some things that you could recommend for the men that are listening?
Gentle Warrior
Sure. I went to a retreat once. And there was an exercise in that retreat that really helped me to think about this idea of the male and female energy. And I think this is something you can do with your lover, or even by yourself, just being more aware of it. Just thinking about being totally dominant and in charge or being totally submissive, and doing what other people say, and just noticing when that happens in your life. If I’m in a submissive moment right now, which is a more feminine energy, that doesn’t mean that women are submissive. Because I would say, Stormy, you are not submissive at all. But as you said, there are times we want to know that some of that male energy that’s with you is strong enough that you can submit and just start to be aware of that. And then maybe even playing a game. So the game that they had us play at this retreat is that one person just told the other person everything that they were supposed to do. And the other person just had to do anything that they said. And then we switched after 30 minutes. And it was so amazing to me, because it just highlighted in my brain that there are these two energies that exist. And it was a total game. We were laughing. It was silly, but there was one point when I got choked up, like surprisingly choked up, because I kept teasing and pushing back when I was the one that was supposed to be submissive. Finally, the woman that was doing it with me just looked at me and said, you don’t need to do anything right now–you don’t need to make any decisions. And for a man, I mean, that the pressure of constantly having to be in charge and make all the decisions is really heavy. Yeah. And I thought, I can just completely relax into this right now. And then once I could identify those polarities, really, then that leads the foundation to start thinking about it and in work relationships, and understanding that I’m with a woman right now who is in her masculine energy. This is not an appropriate time to tease her or expect her to be in her feminine energy per se. Or I’m working with a male who is on my creative team, who is entering into his feminine energy, like what can I do to give him masculine energy to be stronger? And I think that little piece, just knowing that there’s a spectrum, that was the mind blowing thing for me.
Dr. Stormy
Right. Mm hmm. And you mentioned David Deida. Are there any other influences that you like, that you find in your life that help you navigate the continued practice of leading into masculinity?
Gentle Warrior
Sure, and I will do a plug for Stormy right now. Because you have been a major influence for me and helping me to walk along that path. And I’ve appreciated some of the personal coaching you’ve done with me as well, because you don’t know what you don’t know until somebody who does know helps you to discover it for yourself. And that’s that great adage of teaching that you can’t just listen to a podcast or whatever. You have to have someone guide you down that path and maybe listen to a podcast, and it will help you to see a path that you didn’t see before. But having mentors in your life, I guess, is the point. So this other the guy that recommended the book to me in the first place, has been somebody that I know is safe to talk to about my masculinity . He’s the one that recommended this thing to me and to finding those people and maybe also just taking a chance. I took a chance and had a more real conversation with my little brother about this stuff. And that opened up a discussion where he and I now talk about this stuff in a real way, so cool. And so if we assume that everybody wants to talk about it, for the most part, but we’re all kind of embarrassed to talk about it–then just take baby steps, like pulling a friend aside once you know who you can trust and who’s ready and who you can’t.Then just be respectful of that and go to those sources. Because otherwise you’re walking this path of life alone and it’s way too lonely.
Dr. Stormy
No, I agree. it’s like that brotherhood piece is what I’m hearing, that it takes a village. I hear you say make your village amazing, like get that village thing right. You know, right now with Coronavirus, we are much more in isolation than we have been in. So when we get to be in connection, it’s just even more sacred. Like it’s even more potent, you know. I love the idea of men supporting men and men calling men up and out together, right? If you start to build those trust relationships, then someone’s gonna call you on your shit. You’re gonna call them on their shit too, which is awesome, right–rather than complacency or just come along with me in my story.
Gentle Warrior
And for men, the the real telltale thing is, is all we do is bullshit and tease each other. Because bullshitting and teasing each other is a very important rite of passage of male friendship. But if that’s all you do, at some point he’s got to say, I need to have a serious conversation with you about something I’m really struggling with. And you know, if anyone who’s a real friend that’s listening to this knows that if their friend said that, they’d say, Alright, man, what’s up? But if it’s left to our own devices, I think most of us, and I’m including myself in this, would rather just bullshit, tease, and play around at this level. Whenever someone kind of starts to show their feelings, we tease a little bit about it and exaggerate it, rather than just sitting down for a minute. But then, if you talk to men who dedicate themselves to their own therapeutic work, usually they’re a little bit more open. And then after you spend those 30 to 60 minutes of having that serious talk, you go right back to pinching, pushing, punching each other, whatever it is your style with your crew of friends.
Dr. Stormy
You’re talking about vulnerability, like being willing to be vulnerable with other males and other male friends and your community kind of thing.
Gentle Warrior
Yes. It’s the vulnerability. You’re exposing something that could potentially bring you shame. But the courage is just trust, it’s trust more than it is vulnerability. Do I trust this friend to handle something that’s important to me and not belittle it? And when you find those friends–keep them. And the ones that don’t get it? They can be the guys that you see once a month at a barbecue.
Dr. Stormy
Yeah, totally. I love that. Yeah. Awesome. Well, anything else you want to add about masculinity and our journey and dance with it?
Gentle Warrior
I would just say just go for it. It’s been so life changing for me. And if you’re, confused about it, or if anything about what we just talked about resonated, there are baby steps that you can take. I would encourage people to contact you, Stormy. I think that you’ve been a huge resource for me as I’ve tried to just take each of those little steps along the path that I’m on. So just find somebody that you trust, that you can start to talk to about these things–and explore what polarity energy and masculine feminine polarity is. That was the eye opener for me, and now I’ve just been untangling that for the last five years.
Dr. Stormy
Amazing.Yeah.I love that. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening, everyone, and watching. If this resonates with you, take what is of service, and leave it if it’s not. But please feel free to like, comment and subscribe. Join us next week for the Love Deep love podcast and thank you for being brave and opening your heart to love deep.
